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Subject Topic: Communion. Post Reply Post New Topic
Message posted by God's Child. on October 24 2009 at 8:46 pm - IP Logged
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God's Child.

 
United States
November 12 2007
896 Posts

So I was at a church several weeks ago, checking it out. I've still yet to find a church that really satisfies me. I was at this one church and they held Holy Communion. It didn't occur to me until a few days later that they used leavened bread for it. When I stopped and thought about it, I remembered that in every place in the Bible I read about partaking of bread in obedience to God, it was always to be with unleavened bread. The leaven always represented sin, and at Communion, the bread represents Christ's body. So would partaking of leavened bread at Communion basically be saying that Christ contains sin? Some people point out that Christ did away with the food-specific ordinances and all, but I don't understand how the leaven no longer represents sin, yet the bread still represents Christ.

What do you think? To be honest I'm not convinced that leavened bread is ok for Communion.



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The reverence of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 1:7

Message posted by POC777 on October 24 2009 at 11:37 pm - IP Logged
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POC777

 
United States
January 13 2004
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Quote: Originally posted by God's Child. on October 24 2009

<FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">

So I was at a church several weeks ago, checking it out. I've still yet to find a church that really satisfies me. I was at this one church and they held Holy Communion. It didn't occur to me until a few days later that they used leavened bread for it. When I stopped and thought about it, I remembered that in every place in the Bible I read about partaking of bread in obedience to God, it was always to be with unleavened bread.

The leaven always represented sin, and at Communion, the bread represents Christ's body. So would partaking of leavened bread at Communion basically be saying that Christ contains sin? Some people point out that Christ did away with the food-specific ordinances and all, but I don't understand how the leaven no longer represents sin, yet the bread still represents Christ.

<FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">

What do you think?



Much has been written on the LORD's Supper, Communion or the Euchrist(the Catholic name for Jesus broken body and precious blood). Having debates on this topical issue won't explain about this wonderful practice our LORD and Savior Jesus established the night before being crucified for our sins.

You are correct leaven is symbolic for sin. It was common in Jesus time that unleavened bread was made and eaten by most of the Jewish people. The bread represented the time God used Moses to deliver Israel out of Egypt. Moses instructed hundreds of Jewish families to kill a lamb, roast the animal and eat it quickly with bitter herbs and paint their door posts with its blood before twilight. God pa**ed over every door and if the blood wasn't found killed every firstborn in Egypt(Exodus 12)

Communion is similar to the Pa**over. The lamb who was sacrificed was a type of Christ and the blood on the door post was the cross that delivered us from God's judgment for our sin.

Communion could be done either at church or at home--with unleavened bread of course and a bottle of grape juice with a small cup.

As long as we follow Paul's instructions in 1 Corinthians 11:23-34, we won't don't drink judgment on ourselves by mocking Jesus death! It's VERY important to check our heart if there is any habitual sin or else we will get sick or die!

Let me tell you about my own experiences. Going back to the time I was about 10 years old, I still remember going with my mother to a Roman Catholic church every Sunday.

After every service a Catholic priest preform his religious duties: bow down to a book(which looked like a huge Bible) cleaned a golden cup with white cloth and had a package of 3 inch wafers.

What he will do is dip the wafer in the cup and when he was done will held it up. Next, he will call every faithful Catholic up to the front and there will be a line of people--one by one will receive a wafer. At that time, I had no clue what was on--now I do.

I believe the wafers were unleavened!

You see priests in Roman Catholic Churches are taught by the Vatican that God gave them the power to change, literally, the body and blood of Christ. Nowhere in the Bible do we find that its all based on the traditions of man! Mainly, they take out of context John 6 where Jesus teaches to eat his body and drink His blood to have eternal life.

Those who followed Him believed He was really teaching them to eat Him and drain Him out. Which is why they said "this is a hard saying who can understand it?" and in John 6:66 we read they no longer followed Him.

To their mistake he was speaking spiritually and not literally. He says "the words I speak to you are spiritual". And Catholics fall into the same line!

Now as an adult I been to churches were there was nothing like the Roman Catholic Church I went to as a lad.

To my surprise Communion in a Christian church was quite different. No priest in colorful green and gold robes, gold cup or even wafers.

Just in this order:

1. Pastor is done with his sermon or teaching.
2. Pastor announces to the congregation there will be Communion.
3. Pastor calls up those who want to join in.
4. Pastor reads the Bible for instruction about Communion
5. Pastor prays and asks congregation as well
6. Pastor instructs servants to pa** around containers with broken unleavened bread and small cups.
7. Pastor and those involved partake in the LORD's Supper.

That's how I narrowed it down!



To be honest I'm not convinced that leavened bread is ok for Communion.

I hope the above explained how Communion is preformed without unleavened beard!






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If God is higher than angels and angels higher than Man is then God is higher than both angels and Man - Son of the Most High

Message posted by God's Child. on October 26 2009 at 6:47 pm - IP Logged
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God's Child.

 
United States
November 12 2007
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POC:

Thanks bro, for the info! What happened in your church is pretty much the same thing that happened here, only the Pastor didn't ask the congregation to stand. He just had his helpers walk around and pa** out tiny little cubes of leavened bread to everyone.

 

So, for the record, communion should be with UNleavened, right?



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The reverence of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 1:7

Message posted by POC777 on October 26 2009 at 7:48 pm - IP Logged
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POC777

 
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GC

The Word of God teaches the following:

1. For about 3,000 years ago Pa**over feast was established with UNleavened beard by Moses.

a. UNleavened bread represents the freedom of Israel from Egypt by Moses.

2. Jesus who was a Jewish man kept Pa**over from child to adult. He made a New Covenant established the LORD's Supper and used UNleavened.

3. In the book of Acts, the apostles and Christians used UNleavened beard for Communion.

a. In Acts 2:46 we read that the 3,000 new believers meet from house to house "breaking bread". That was either a potluck or Communion with UNleavened bread!

4. Paul the Apostle addrssing his letter to the Church of Corinth used UNleavened bread during Communion.

Today worldwide Jewish families have kept Pa**over using(Matzo, a Jewish soup) or simply UNleavened bread dipping it in olive oil.

Most Christians churches today use UNleavened bread(unsalted cracker, I believe) during Communion.

Therefore, from what we just read UNleavened bread is biblical and leaven bread is not biblical because no one used it.



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If God is higher than angels and angels higher than Man is then God is higher than both angels and Man - Son of the Most High

Message posted by God's Child. on November 01 2009 at 3:25 pm - IP Logged
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God's Child.

 
United States
November 12 2007
896 Posts
Where at in Corinthians did Paul used unleavened bread, can you ell me? Like what chapter and verse(s)?

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The reverence of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 1:7

Message posted by oftheFather7 on December 24 2009 at 12:23 pm - IP Logged
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oftheFather7

 
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DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME



COMMUNION -THE BREAD


Matthew 26

[26] And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, TAKE, EAT; THIS IS MY BODY.

[27] And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

[28] For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

[29] But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.


Mark 14

[22] And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: THIS IS MY BODY.

[23] And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.

[24] And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

[25] Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.


1 Cor. 11

[23] For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

[24] And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: THIS IS MY BODY, WHICH IS BROKEN FOR YOU: THIS DO IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.

[25] After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.

[26] For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, YOU DO SHOW THE LORD'S DEATH TILL HE COME.

[27] Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

[28] But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

[29] For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh Darnation to himself, NOT DISCERNING THE LORD'S BODY.

[30] For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

[31] For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.



Jesus' body is our bread, our manna from heaven -


Exod.16

[15] And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the LORD hath given you to eat.

[31] And the house of Israel called the name thereof Manna: and it was like coriander seed, white; and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey.

[33] And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a pot, and put an omer full of manna therein, and lay it up before the LORD, TO BE KEPT for your generations.



Deut.8

[3] And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; THAT HE MIGHT MAKE YOU KNOW THAT MAN DOES NOT LIVE BY BREAD ONLY, BUT BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF THE LORD DOES MAN LIVE.


Neh.9

[20] Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, and withheldest not thy manna from their mouth, and gavest them water for their thirst.


Pss.78

[24] And had rained down manna upon them to eat, and had given them of the corn of heaven.


John.6

[31] Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, HE GAVE THEM BREAD FROM HEAVEN TO EAT.

[51]I AM THE LIVING BREAD WHICH CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN: IF ANY MAN EAT OF THIS BREAD HE SHALL LIVE FOREVER: AND THE BREAD THAT I GIVE IS MY FLESH WHICH I WILL GIVE FOR THE LIFE OF THE WORLD.

[58] THIS IS THAT BREAD WHICH CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead:HE THAT EATS OF THIS BREAD SHALL LIVE FOREVER.



Rev.2

[17] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.


Who is our Bread from Heaven? Jesus, the Word of God, for we don't live by physical bread alone, but BY EVERY WORD THAT PRECEEDS FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD.

THE WORD OF GOD IS OUR BREAD FROM HEAVEN, WHO IS JESUS, FOR HE IS GOD'S WORD MADE FLESH AND WE HAVE LIFE THROUGH HIM!


1Cor.5

[6] Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

[7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our pa**over is sacrificed for us:

[8] Therefore let us keep the feast, NOT WITH OLD LEAVEN, NEITHER WITH THE LEAVEN OF MALICE AND WICKEDNESS; BUT WITH THE UNLEAVENED BREAD OF SINCERITY AND TRUTH.


So then, the symbolism of eating unleavened bread, which IS WITHOUT SIN, is representing Christ, the Word of God. CHRIST IS AND WAS WITHOUT SIN!

In the Old Testament, when the priests sacrificed a Lamb, those priests partook of the sacrifice. Therefore, this symbolized spiritually, that we must also partake of the sufferings of the sacrifice, which is Christ Jesus.


1 Cor. 10

[16] The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

[17] For we being many are one bread, and one body: FOR WE ARE ALL THE PARTAKERS OF THAT ONE BREAD.

[18] Behold Israel after the flesh: ARE NOT THEY WHICH EAT OF THE SACRIFICES PARTAKERS OF THE ALTER?

[21] Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

[22] Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?


When you EAT/RECEIVE/ABIDE AND OBEY THE WORD OF GOD, you abide in the Word, which is Christ Jesus our Lord.

And because you abide in the Word, you will partake of His sufferings, for all those who will eat/receive/abide and obey God's Word, Jesus Christ, the BREAD of Life, will suffer persecution just as Christ Jesus, the Lamb of God, suffered and was broken and was sacrificed for us.


2Tim.3

[12] Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.


2Cor.1

[7] And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, THAT AS YOU ARE PARTAKERS OF THE SUFFERINGS, so shall ye be also of the consolation.


1Pet.4

[13] But rejoice, inasmuch AS YOU ARE PARTAKERS OF CHRIST'S SUFFERINGS; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.


Paul said -


Gal.6

[17] From henceforth let no man trouble me: FOR I BEAR IN MY BODY THE MARKS OF THE LORD JESUS.


Thus Paul, and we, ourselves, because we receive the Word of Life, the Bread from Heaven, the body of the Lord Jesus, who bore His cross and showed forth the marks of persecution and tribulation by the hands of men motivated by Satan, we will bear in our body the marks of the Lord Jesus as well.


2Cor.4

[10] ALWAYS BEARING ABOUT IN THE BODY THE DYING OF THE LORD JESUS, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.


And as Jesus bore His cross of persecution, we must also bear ours.


John 19

[16] Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.

[17] AND HE BEARING HIS CROSS went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:

[18] Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.


We must BEAR the cross of persecution and tribulation and continue to follow Jesus, even in sufferings for Him and His Word and many tribulations, because we have received Him through faith.


Luke.14

[27] And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.


Matt.16

[24] Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, LET HIM DENY HIMSELF, AND TAKE UP HIS CROSS, AND FOLLOW ME.


Thus, you show the Lord's death is shown in your body as we are the BODY of Christ, until He comes again, for when we receive Christ, the WORD and BREAD of God, whom we live by -is He not in us? And are we not then HIS BODY of believers? And are we not ONE with Him? Thus, Satan's workers seek to murder the Light of Christ in us. And He which is in us is greater than he which is in the world.


Ephes. 5

[29] For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

[30] FOR WE ARE MEMBERS OF HIS BODY, OF HIS FLESH, AND OF HIS BONES.

[31] For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and THEY TWO SHALL BE ONE flesh.

[32] This is a great mystery: but I SPEAK CONCERNING CHRIST AND THE CHURCH.



1 COR. 12

[27] Now YOU ARE THE BODY OF CHRIST, and members in particular.




COMMUNION - THE CUP OF WINE



Matthew 26

[26] And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, take, eat; this is my body.

[27] And he took THE CUP, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

[28] For THIS IS MY BLOOD OF THE NEW TESTAMENT, WHICH IS SHED FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS.

[29] But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of THIS FRUIT OF THE VINE, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.


Mark 14

[22] And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.

[23] And he took THE CUP, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and THEY ALL DRANK OF IT.

[24] And he said unto them, THIS IS MY BLOOD OF THE NEW TESTAMENT WHICH IS SHED FOR MANY.

[25] Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of THE FRUIT OF THE VINE, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.


1 Cor. 11

[23] For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

[24] And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: THIS DO IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.

[25] After the same manner also HE TOOK THE CUP, when he had supped, saying, THIS CUP IS THE NEW TESTAMENT IN MY BLOOD:THIS DO YOU, AS OFTEN AS YOU DRINK IT, IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.

[26] For as often as ye eat this bread, AND DRINK THIS CUP, YOU DO SHOW THE LORD'S DEATH TILL HE COME.

[27] Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and DRINK THIS CUP OF THE LORD, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and BLOOD OF THE LORD.

[28] But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

[29] For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh Darnation to himself, NOT DISCERNING THE LORD'S BODY.

[30] For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

[31] For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.



Gen.44

[17] And he said, God forbid that I should do so: BUT THE MAN IN WHOSE HAND THE CUP IS FOUND, HE SHALL BE MY SERVANT; and as for you, get you up in peace unto your father.


When we receive the CUP of Jesus we become the SERVANTS of Christ.


Pss.16

[5] THE LORD IS THE PORTION OF MY INHERITANCE AND OF MY CUP: thou maintainest my lot.


The Lord Jesus is our CUP.


Pss.23

[5] Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; MY CUP RUNS OVER.


We must drink the CUP of Jesus even in the presence of our enemies.


Pss.116

[13]I WILL TAKE THE CUP OF SALVATION, and call upon the name of the LORD.


The CUP of Jesus is the CUP of salvation and eternal life.


Matthew 20

[20] Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him.

[21] And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.

[22] But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. ARE YOU ABLE TO DRINK OF THE CUP THAT I SHALL DRINK OF, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

[23] And he saith unto them, YOU SHALL DRINK INDEED OF MY CUP, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.


Above, the CUP of Jesus is mentioned. Jesus tells His disciples that by asking to join Him in His kingdom, the disciples are really asking to drink of His cup and be baptized with His baptism. He implies that it is not an easy task by saying, "you know not what you ask."

Jesus a**ures them that they will drink of His cup and be baptized with His baptism.

What are the disciples asking for when they say that they can drink of His cup and be baptized with Christ's baptism?


Matthew 26

[27] And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

[28] For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


The cup of Jesus has to do with the shedding of His blood for remission of sins. The cup of Jesus has to do with establishing God's covenant with His people through Christ according to the New Testament. The cup of Jesus has to do with giving His life for many.


Matthew 26

[38] Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

[39] And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, LET THIS CUP Pa** FROM ME: NEVER THE LESS NOT AS I WILL, BUT AS YOU WILT.

[42] He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, IF THIS CUP MAY NOT Pa** AWAY FROM ME EXCEPT I DRINK IT, YOUR WILL BE DONE.

[45] Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and THE SON OF MAN IS BETRAYED INTO THE HANDS OF SINNERS.


The cup of Jesus is not to be taken lightly. The cup involves being betrayed by the ones you love and being mistreated and persecuted by the hands of sinners. The cup of Jesus is the fulfilling of the will of God.


David spoke in Psalms 116:13 of the CUP of the Lord being Salvation, which is eternal life. And in Psalms 16:5 as the inheritance of Christ as our portion and joining Christ in His kingdom is of this same cup, the Lord explains in Mark 10 that which the cup contains.


Mark.10

[17] And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?


The Cup of Jesus contains the inheritance of Christ and eternal life, for David said that the Lord is his portion and his cup.


[19] Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.


Drinking of the cup means that we obey the commandments of God


[20] And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.

[21] Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.


Drinking of the cup of the Lord means that we lose our life on earth and thus, gain salvation and eternal life in Christ Jesus. We give up all to obtain Christ Jesus. We give to the poor that which Christ has given to us, material things, as well as, spiritual things, for Peter said, "silver and gold have I not, but what I have, I give to thee." We give that which Christ has given us. He gave His Word, the Word of God, which is the way, the truth and the life and He gave love, forgiveness, mercy, patience, salvation, light, peace, reconciliation, joy in righteousness, healing, miracles, casting out of demons, understanding, wisdom, knowledge, prayer, warnings, etc., for Jesus tells us that the things He does we shall do and greater things shall we do.

Our treasure in heaven, the true riches, are God and His Son, Jesus Christ. The cup of the Lord contains taking up the cross and following Jesus, which means that we bear all things, sufferings, persecutions, tribulations, etc., for His name sake.



[22] And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

[23] And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

[24] And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

[25] It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


We must judge/examine ourselves before we drink of the cup of the Lord, are we willing to give these things and endure these things in the power of Christ? Are we willing to forsake trusting in riches to trust in the Living Word, Jesus Christ and God, the Father?


[26] And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?

[27] And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

[28] Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, WE HAVE LEFT ALL, AND HAVE FOLLOWED YOU.


Drinking of the cup of the Lord involves leaving all the lusts of the flesh, pride of life and lusts of the eyes behind. It involves circumcising or cutting away or pruning away all that which will or seeks to hinder obtaining Christ and the kingdom of the Lord.


[29] And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,


For some, the cup of the Lord will involved leaving houses, brothers, sisters, parents, spouses and even children and states, countries or homelands for Christ's sake and for the sake of the Word of God.


[30] But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, WITH PERSECUTIONS; AND IN THE WORLD TO COME ETERNAL LIFE.


The cup of Christ contains persecutions in this life, but it also contains receiving. The cup of Christ involves receiving houses, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and lands, for although Job lost his children and spouse because of that evil one, he was given another wife and more sons and daughters.

God will replace brothers and sisters of the flesh, who have forsaken you because of Christ and the Word, with brothers and sisters of the Spirit. And if that evil one causes your house to be taken, God will replace your physical house with a spiritual house both now and later.

And God will replace physical children who have separated from you or turned against you because of the Word with spiritual children and make you a mother and father in Israel.

And as God gave Abraham land, He took Abraham from the Ur of the Chaldees, a land of sin and gave him the promised land, but not without persecution by Satan, working in the sons of disobedience.



[31] BUT MANY THAT ARE FIRST SHALL BE LAST; AND THE LAST FIRST.


The cup of the lord also is without competition, pride, and arrogancy. The cup of the Lord involves submission unto the righteousness of Christ. We are not to Lord over one another but subject ourselves unto one another in Christ Jesus.


[32] And they were in the way going up to Jerusalem; and Jesus went before them: and they were amazed; and as they followed, they were afraid. And he took again the twelve, and BEGAN TO TELL THEM WHAT THINGS SHOULD HAPPEN UNTO HIM,


Jesus continues to explain His cup.


[33] Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles:


The cup of the Lord also involves being delivered unto the enemies of Christ's Word, and those of the antichrist spirit. The cup of Christ involves being condemned wrongfully, and even death. The cup of Christ involves being persecuted and mistreated by sinners.


[34] And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.


The cup of Christ involves being mocked, scourged, spit on, and even killed for Christ's sake. The cup of Christ involves the dying and denying of yourself in the flesh and living unto Christ in the Spirit.


[35] And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire.

[36] And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you?

[37] They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.

[38] But Jesus said unto them, YOU KNOW NOT WHAT YOU ASK: CAN YOU DRINK OF THE CUP THAT I DRINK OF? AND BE BAPTIZED WITH THE BAPTISM THAT I AM BAPTIZED WITH?

[39] And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, YOU SHALL INDEED DRINK OF THE CUP THAT I DRINK OF; AND WITH THE BAPTISM WITHAL SHALL YOU BE BAPTIZED:


Thus Jesus says, yes, you will indeed receive the portion of my cup, the suffering, persecution, tribulation, as well as the joy, salvation and eternal life. You will indeed die in the flesh and live in the Spirit, for as we go under or submit to the water of the Word we are washed of our own will and of our excessive fleshly desires. And as we come up, we shed the excess of the flesh and our will dies and our will is submitted unto the will of God in Christ Jesus, therefore, our old man is pa**ed/dead and our spiritual man lives unto Christ Jesus, just as Jesus died in the flesh and lives unto God. And just as Jesus receives His cup or portion/duty from the Lord God and submits His will unto God, we also receive our cup or portion/duty from Jesus Christ and submit unto Christ's will, for Christ's will is the will of God. And as Jesus descended into the earth in the flesh and was persecuted and suffered in the flesh and died, it is He who also ascended resurrected and sits on the right hand of God in heaven. Thus, we that partake of sufferings with Him in the flesh, will also live with Him and partake of the joy of the kingdom of heaven, salvation and eternal life.


[40] But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.

[41] And when the ten heard it, they began to be much displeased with James and John.

[42] But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.

[43] But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:

[44] And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.

[45] For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.


Jesus then goes on to explain that His cup also involves being and learning how to be His servants. Just as He found Himself in a body and humbled Himself unto God and performed His duty/portion/cup and gave His life for many, we must also humble ourselves unto Jesus and perform our duty/portion/cup and lay down our lives for our friends and all that entails.


Now, even as we wash in the blood of the communion and receive, through faith, the forgiveness of sins, we also drink the wine of the communion, which is the knowledge, wisdom and doctrine of the Lord through the Spirit.


Prov.9
[1] Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:

[2] She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table.

[3] She hath sent forth her maidens: she crieth upon the highest places of the city,

[4] Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: as for him that wanteth understanding, she saith to him,

[5] Come, eat of my bread, and drink of the wine which I have mingled.


The cup of the wine of the Lord contains wisdom and understanding. Jesus Christ was made unto us the wisdom of God, therefore we gather unto the tree of Life, the Vine of God, as God is the Husbandman, and we drink freely the deep things of God given to us through the Spirit.


John.15

[5] I AM THE VINE, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.


Exod.29

[40] And with the one lamb a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil; and the fourth part of an hin of wine for a drink offering.


As as we receive of the cup of the wine of the Lord, we also give to others who thirst and as we have been given, and we bring forth fruit unto God and it is seen as an offering unto the Lord, for the Word tells us, if we give drink unto the brethren, then we are indeed given it unto the Lord.


Matt. 25

[34] Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

[35] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

[36] Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

[37] Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

[38] When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

[39] Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

[40] And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, INASMUCH AS YOU HAVE DONE IT UNTO ONE OF THE LEAST OF MY BRETHREN, YOU HAVE DONE IT UNTO ME.


The Wine of the cup is the FRUIT OF THE VINE and Jesus is the Vine, thus we when drink His cup through faith we receive the gifts of the Spirit.


Matt.26

[29] But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of THIS FRUIT OF THE VINE, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.


For the fruit of the Vine, and Jesus is the Vine, received in us, bring forth the fruits of the Spirit.


Gal. 5

[22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

[23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.



Ephes. 5

[9] (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

[10] Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.



Therefore, the cup of the wine of the Lord contains love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance, goodness, righteousness, truth and proving what is acceptable to the Lord, because receiving Jesus, and His wine, brings forth in us His fruits, which are spiritual fruits. And we show forth Christ through these frutis.


John.15

[1]I AM THE TRUE VINE, AND MY FATHER IS THE HUSBANDMAN.

[4] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

[5]I AM THE VINE, YOU ARE THE BRANCHES:He that abideth in me, and I in him, THE SAME BRINGS FORTH MUCH FRUIT: for without me ye can do nothing.


Therefore, you will usually find the oil, a symbol of the Spirit, mentioned with the wine, for the Spirit, and the Blood are witnesses with the Water of the Word.


1John.5

[7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

[8] And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.



Luke.10

[34] And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.


By Christ's stripes we are healed. His blood cleanses us and heals our wounds and infirmities, the Sword of the Spirit, the Word of God, separates the spirit from the flesh and manifests the thoughts and intents of the heart.


Pss.104

[15] And WINE THAT MAKES GLAD THE HEART (MIND) OF MAN, and OIL to make his face to shine, and BREAD which strengtheneth man's heart.


The wisdom of the Lord, the fruits of the Vine and the healing of the wine of the Lord gives joy to the mind of man and strengthens man, these are found as well in the cup of the Lord.


Rev.3

[20] Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I WILL COME IN TO HIM, AND WILL SUP WITH HIM, AND HE WITH ME.


All these things are of our communing with God and His Son. He prepares His table before us. Jesus sups with us and we with Him. Be careful how you sup, for a man must examine himself first. Don't take it lightly, for he or she that drinks or eats unworthily is guilty of the body and blood of Jesus, which brings sickness and even death to those who do not recognize the truth of receiving the body and blood of Christ.


1Cor.10

[21] Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

[22] Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?


Jesus is separate from sin and we are the Lord's. We are to be one with Him not the false wine/doctrine of devils and the sensual, devilish knowledge of the evil one, or the fruits of unrighteousness and death brought forth through the spirit of whoredoms, for he or she that does these things are one with that evil one. We are to be one with the Lord God and His Son only and flee spiritual fornication and adultery, for our God's name is jealousy.


1 Cor. 6

[15] Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

[16] What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

[17] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

[18] Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body.

[19] What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

[20] For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.



Exod.34

[14] For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, WHOSE NAME IS JEALOUS, is a jealous God:


Deut.4

[24] For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, EVEN A JEALOUS GOD.


2Cor.11

[2] For I am jealous over you with GODLY JEALOUSY: for I HAVE ESPOUSED YOU TO ONE HUSBAND, THAT I MAY PRESENT YOU AS A CHASTE VIRGIN TO CHRIST.


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I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. John 5:43

Message posted by POC777 on December 24 2009 at 7:56 pm - IP Logged
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POC777

 
United States
January 13 2004
8728 Posts
oft7

Thank you for that exegectical of the doctrine!

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If God is higher than angels and angels higher than Man is then God is higher than both angels and Man - Son of the Most High

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